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Thread: bottorf-fabrication

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Orlando, FL
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    1

    bottorf-fabrication

    Hello Land Rover Community,

    Under normal circumstances I never, ever voice my opinion about a company or a product Good or Bad. However I felt it would be necessary in this situation to make an exception to my rule. Usually, I feel itís not really worth it but, in this case I am going to follow through.

    I will be posting this on every LR forum on the net. So for you all, that are like me you will be seeing this post multiple places.

    Let start with the back story:

    Lady backs up into my 2003 LR Disco 2 bumper (we all know they are made of egg shell) anyways, she ask that instead of filling an insurance claim, I find a bumper and she will pay for it. (SCORE) I have been wanting some armor for a while. So, my choices are pretty endless Rovertyn,ARB ETCÖ I figure let me cut this lady some slack and instead of spending 900+ on a bumper I pick bottorf-fabrication. Small independent, seems to offer great product at an affordable price. Reviews looks pretty solid. Well what has transpired since I put my order back on March 18th. Honestly I am disgusted by these guys: I have 65 email from them. I will post them under this thread. What I am looking for is whether or not I am being a pain in the ass or is it that these guys donít have the *censored**censored**censored**censored* together and really arenít worth my time or by anyone elseís. What I canít prove is the first conversation I had with Nate the owner back in the middle of March was that he was not busy, had no large orders and would be able to ďKnock it out. FAST!!Ē So I contacted the lady who hit me and that same night she had her husband call Bottorf fabrication and give them their credit card number.

    Here is what I am trying to accomplish, I donít mean harm to anyone or any business. All I am trying to tell the community is buyer beware. Unless these guys make some internal changes I donít see how they will be able to continue to compete with larger LR aftermarket vendors.

    Sometime the spending a little cost a lot. All I want is for my bumper to come in. A tracking number from UPS that works Thatís it..I donít want anymore or any less.

    Bottorf fabrication even offered to refund the card and still send the bumper. I AM NOT TRYING TO GET ANYTHING FREE, FROM THEM THEY WERE PAID, AND ARE DUE THEIR MONEY, UNLESS THEY CANT DELIVER THE BUMPER.

    Please post your comments below after reading the emails.

    Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to rick.lopez1@gmail.com, jaysnt9@aol.com

    March 25th

    Rick and Jay,

    Sorry for the delay in getting this to you. Attached is your receipt. Weíll be shipping shortly.

    Take Care,
    -Nate
    Bottorf Fabrication
    'off the rocker since 2005'
    www.Botttorf-Fabrication.com
    814-414-4169
    April 12th
    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    Hi Nate,
    Do you have an update?
    Thanks
    Sent from my Droid X

    April 19th

    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    Hi can you give me a call I wanted to hear from you and find out when I would be receiving the bumper ? Call me at 32121-xxxx thank you
    Sent from my Droid X

    April 19th

    Hi Rick,

    Iím knocking yours out of the park this week. Iíll give you a ring tonight. Iím finishing it up today.

    April 22nd

    Can you tell me when I should expect the bumper? I haven't heard from you.

    April 22nd

    HI Rick,

    Wednesday is the delivery date. Iím out until Monday for the holiday.

    Take Care,
    -Nate

    April 22nd

    Great, Monday is my birthday, so having it by next week would be awesome.

    - Show quoted text -

    April 27th

    The bumper did not make it in today do you have an eta or a tracking number
    Sent from my Droid X

    April 27th


    Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

    Hi Rick,

    Looking into it now for you.

    April 28th


    Do we have an update?


    April 28th
    Hi Rick,

    Yes, as of today it was outbound from Jacksonville. It was held up in Columbia due to the weather.

    (I live in Orlando, 3 hours away from Jacksonville)

    April 28th
    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    ok thanks, so is the estimated arrival date tomorrow?

    April 28th
    Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

    I would say Monday. I could be wrong though, Iíll know more when I see the fax tomorrow morning. Iíll update you as soon as I see it.

    April 28th
    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    Ok thanks Nate. I will send you some pics once I put it on.

    May 2nd

    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    nate can you send me the shipping companies name and telephone number plus the tracking number
    Sent from my Droid X
    - Show quoted text -


    This is where it starts to get shady

    May 2nd

    Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

    Rick,

    I will this week. I donít get back the office every day. I am in the shop which is roughly 15 miles from the office.

    May 2nd

    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    Who is the shipping company. I can call them, and im sure they can track it.
    Sent from my Droid X
    - Show quoted text -

    May 3rd

    rick.Lopez1@gmail.com to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

    Nate,

    I need reassurance that the bumper has in fact been shipped. Looking back at our emails your answers have been short and vague at best. On several occasions you have promised quick delivery and response. I was expecting this bumper last week and today is Tuesday and I have no email confirmation with tracking number or who is delivering the package. I have an email from you saying that the bumper was outbound from Jacksonville on 4/28. I am less than 3 hours from Jacksonville and I have not received a call from the shipping company. Please furnish all the pertaining details. If not I will have no choice but to file to a dispute with my credit card company for fraud. Frankly, I am disappointed in the level of customer service I have received. I doubt highly I will be buying from your company or referring any business to your company because of the level of disconnect. Being a small business owner I would hope you would not take offense to my email and rather do what you can on your end to clear this up ASAP. I expect a response in a timely fashion.
    - Show quoted text -

    May 3rd

    Rick,

    I go by the word of our shipping department as I work in the shop mainly and cannot be in all three locations at once. I will drive down today to make sure that it is on its way. When I get time this week I will also run to the office and get the tracking information that you have been asking for. If this is not suitable I will refund you in full immediately. Please let me know which way you would like to go and weíll get it done.

    Take Care,
    -Nate

    May 3rd

    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    I guess it depends on whether or not it actually has been shipped.
    Sent from my Droid X
    - Show quoted text -

    May 3rd

    Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

    I will find that out today for you Rick.
    10:53am

    May 3rd

    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    do you have any updates
    Sent from my Droid X

    6:45pm

    May 3rd

    Hi Rick,

    I do and it isnít going to be what you want to hear. I have pictures, your bumper is on its way back, damaged. No structural damage but the paint is just about completely gone. I am filling out the claim paperwork and will forward you a copy either way. What I need to know is do you want us to get a replacement out to you or just refund you in full? I will tell you up front that the replacement wonít leave here until Friday. I will be the one personally handling it so I will be printing the label and will email you with it if you choose that route.

    -Nate

    Never got the pictures or the receipt

    May 3rd


    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    at this point the only thing I have to go by is your word. Please send me the confirmation tracking number on friday when you get the bumper out.
    Sent from my Droid X
    - Show quoted text Ė


    May 3rd

    Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

    Will do Rick. I will also forward you a copy of the paper work tomorrow.

    May 6th


    Any updates?
    Sent from my Droid X
    On Mar 25, 2011 10:21 AM, "Nate" <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> wrote:


    May 7th

    Rick,

    I am out for the weekend but will give you an update first thing Monday.
    -Nate

    May 7th

    SURE.



    May 9th


    Update?

    May 9th

    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    I didn't hear from you today. I called the office and left you a message.
    Sent from my Droid X



    May 10th

    Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez rick.lopez1@gmail.com

    ( This is where Bottorf becomes a multi billion coporation where one hand doesnít now what the other hand is doing)

    Rick,

    Apologies, itís been a busy week. Melanie will have a tracking number to you before the end of the day.

    -Nate


    May 10th


    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    So has it gone out? Our is it going out today? Who is Melanie so I can follow up with her, number / email address.
    Sent from my Droid X

    May 11th


    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    So has it gone out? Our is it going out today? Who is Melanie so I can follow up with her, number / email address.
    Sent from my Droid X

    May 11th

    rick.Lopez1@gmail.com to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    Nate,

    I have not heard from anyone. If you were in my shoes, i hope you would understand how frustrating this is becoming.

    May 11th

    Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to rick.Lopez1@gmail.com

    Rick,

    Melanie has your number. I will call you in the morning since she obviously didnít.

    May 11th


    Rick <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    Can you tell me if has been shipped?


    Sent from my iPad 2

    May 11th

    Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

    Rick,

    Yes, it has been shipped.
    May 11th

    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    have you had an opportunity to follow up with your internal contact for the shipping details? I have not heard from anyone. all I need is who the shipping company is and the tracking number.
    Sent from my Droid X

    May 11th

    Rick <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    The only constant throughout this entire process, is when you say your going to do something. You dont, i have recieved a call nor have i recevied the tracking number you promised. I hope this isnt how you treat all your customers.

    Sent from my iPad 2

    May 11th

    Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

    Rick,

    Is the day over? I work until almost 1 in the morning. I will have a tracking number to you today. From there I will follow up with UPS to figure out when the delivery will be.

    May 12th


    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    nate I realize that you are very busy and and work really hard too late hours and is unable to follow through with the details but I have not heard from anyone and I did not get the tracking number yesterday that you have been promising to supply if you could be so kind as to giving me melanie direct number or email address I will follow up with her. if I could make 1 suggestion on how to run a business you should always under promise and over deliver instead of over promising and under delivering.
    Sent from my Droid X
    - Show quoted text -

    May 12th


    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    1 o'clock in the afternoon and I still haven't received any updates from you today
    Sent from my Droid X
    - Show quoted text -

    May 12th

    Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

    Rick,

    Tracking number will be in your hands I am in the shop right now.

    May 12th


    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    nate on may third you told me you would forward the paperwork to me on may fourth its now may 12th and everyday you have a new excuse. get me the tracking number today or or I sign up for every land rover forum on the web and post this string of emails that I have kept as documentation showing your lack of the follow up, commitment and most of all of these excuses. I have called your store several times with no phone calls in return. I really wish I had bought it on ebay so I could give you a really bad rating this is just bull*censored**censored**censored**censored*. there are so many options towards buying bumpers on the net and I chose to buy 1 from you never again. if I don't get the bumper I will make sure everyone knows what a scam you are. lift up your skirt and grab your balls and give me a call.
    Sent from my Droid X
    - Show quoted text -


    May 12th


    Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

    Rick,

    We donít take lightly to threats. I have passed this on to our legal department. A full refund will be given today and your bumper was scheduled for delivery on Monday. Tracking number is: 1ZY193V80392185155. Because of the comment below, we have recalled the shipment and will have it canceled out. We have a two plus month waiting period for a reason and for that same reason we do will not tolerate threats. If you have any further comments you may direct them to John who is head of our legal department. You may contact him at our customer service email address or by our normal 814-414-4169 number. If you would like I can have him contact you as well.

    Regards,
    -Nate


    This is where we had a few conversations by phone, all I can say is that not nice words were used. LOL, here are the following emails after a few phone calls. I was introduced to their ďLEGAL DepartmenrĒ John?



    May 12th


    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    nate have john call me since you are too pussy to
    Sent from my Droid X
    - Show quoted text -

    May 12th

    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    snake (I meant Nate) you are full of *censored**censored**censored**censored* and a *censored**censored**censored**censored*in liar the bumper was never sent it man up faggot stop hiding behind email
    Sent from my Droid X


    May 12th


    Rick <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    What a joke of a company. My voice will be heard i promise you.

    Sent from my iPad 2
    - Show quoted text -

    May 12th


    Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

    Rick,

    All it takes is a simple yes and the bumper will be at your door Monday. Iíll even approve a 50% refund AND a bumper at your door. We would like to resolve this with you, but will only do so on an adult level. If we cannot resolve this by tomorrow we will be sending all email threats as well as our conversations to the address below for the filing of harassment charges.

    Regards,
    -John

    May 12th


    Rick <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    Yes, send me my bumper and yes give me a 50% refund on the purchase. I hope to see the bumper on my doorstep by this upcoming monday.

    Sent from my iPad 2
    - Show quoted text -

    May 12th


    Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

    Will do.

    From: Rick [mailto:rick.lopez1@gmail.com]
    Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 5:16 PM
    To: Customer Service
    - Show quoted text -
    - Show quoted text -
    Reply
    Forward


    May 16th

    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    Was the credit card partial reimbursement submitted, and what is the tracking number for the delivery?
    Sent from my Droid X
    - Show quoted text -

    May 16th

    Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

    Rick,

    Actually a full credit was issued last week. I will let that credit stand until the bumper is in your hands and I hear from you. I think it is only fair for you to give us an assessment when you get it and if you like it you can pay what you think it is worth. Sound Fair?

    From: Rick Lopez [mailto:rick.lopez1@gmail.com]
    Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 10:48 AM
    To: Customer Service
    - Show quoted text -
    - Show quoted text -


    May 16th


    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    So when should I expect the bumper to come in
    Sent from my Droid X
    - Show quoted text -
    Reply
    Forward


    May 18th

    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com>, Nate <nate@bottorf-fabrication.com>, "jaysnt9@aol.com" <jaysnt9@aol.com>

    Here is where we stand. No credit has been issued to the card ..the tracking number you gave is wrong. Am I just wasting time following up.?
    - Show quoted text -
    Reply
    Reply All
    Forward



    May 18th


    Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

    The tracking number is not wrong Rick and a refund has been issued. If you would like I will have the accounting office forward copies of it. The tracking number is also correct, but if UPS hasnít updated it we have no control over that.

    May 18th

    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    Why don't you try the tracking number yourself..or send it to me again because the one I have is not correct. Yes forward me the paperwork.
    - Show quoted text -

    May 18th

    Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com> to Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com>

    John I highly doubt that ups is multi 1,000,000 dollar tracking system is unable to locate your package the tracking number that you supplied is wrong and unless you forward me another number the 1 that I have is incorrect. I also have not received the paperwork if you promise that you're going to send me john.
    On May 18, 2011 1:04 PM, "Customer Service" <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com> wrote:


    May 18th


    Customer Service <customerservice@bottorf-fabrication.com> to Rick Lopez <rick.lopez1@gmail.com>

    Rick,
    You are not the only customer and when I get a chance today I will send you a copy of the refund. I will also tell you once again that the number that I gave you and confirmed with you on the phone is the correct number. I can see it on this end and as of today it still says that a label has been created. I will follow up again tomorrow with UPS for an update.

    From: Rick Lopez [mailto:rick.lopez1@gmail.com]




    RECAP Ė NO BUMPER, NO UPS TRACKING NUMBER, NO CREDIT ON CARDÖ..Would I recommend this company to anyone, NO!

    Buyer beware, Had Nate been real from the beginning and told me that the bumper would have taken 3 months to get to me I would have been totally cool, the fact is this is classic OVERPROMISE AND UNDER DELIVER, no wonder this country is in the toilet with Small business not survivingÖ.If this is how they plan to continue to run their shop I doubt highly they will be around much longer. Sadly their designs are KICK ass and in the end all I want is the bumper that was paid for.
    mm

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Check out the Bottorf Fab Black Friday Sale in the For Sale section. Loads of fun.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    "May God have mercy on my enemies because I won't" General George S. Patton

    1983 Defender 110 Wagon

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Welcome to the club. It's taken calls to law enforcement for other people to get refunds.

    If you call the MCKean County Dispatch Center at 814-887-4911, they will have someone from Bradford PD call you back. It's a small department, and the county dispatches for them.

    Also, according to the state of Pennsylvania site search, he is not a registered LLC, so it appears that even though he puts Bottorf Fabrication LLC on his invoices and stuff, he is a sole proprietor, and thereby not personally nor criminally protected.

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    We do not need another thread on this subject. Please consider deleting your's and adding it the current one that has already generated 10000's of hit.
    Mike

    Retired service manager, member of Solihull Society, SCLR, past member of the NCLR and the Santa Barbara 4Wheelers clubs.
    99 D2, 3" lift, CDL with Detroit,T.T. lockers, 4:11's,H.D. axles, custom ft/rear bumpers with sliders, a 9500 HSI Warn winch and 5 HID's.

    To DOWNLOAD the RAVE Manual, follow this link http://www.landroverresource.com/

    Rover Radio issues or IPOD Adapters http://home.valornet.com/splacket/index.htm

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco Mike View Post
    We do not need another thread on this subject. Please consider deleting your's and adding it the current one that has already generated 10000's of hit.
    Mike,

    It will probably get lost once the newest thread goes into the Accessories & Modifications main forum as it has been posted in there somehow. I didn't realize you could post anywhere other than the sub-forums. If you're worried about there being to many threads or tired of seeing them why don't you make it a sticky somewhere?
    Last edited by HLC Fab; 05-19-2011 at 02:34 PM. Reason: edit

  7. #7
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    I could be wrong but it is probably better to have it show up in both so that no one else can get caught up in the Bottorf bumper fiasco. It is draining and very un professional.
    Good luck in your refund count on at least a year.
    Macho
    Just call me Jerry


    04 Discovery pretty much stock except for rack.Want a lift, better tires,winch bumper and maybe some under armor.WHITE GOLD ROVER

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by HLC Fab View Post
    If you're worried about there being to many threads or tired of seeing them why don't you make it a sticky somewhere?
    I honestly considered doing this on LRO but I couldn't figure out how to sticky a thread in the mod tools crap
    "May God have mercy on my enemies because I won't" General George S. Patton

    1983 Defender 110 Wagon

  9. #9
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    AH, all of this is in 2011, I thought you had been waiting a long time. You are still in the honeymoon stage with Nate. Wait until you get closer to 6 months, or 9 months, or a year. Then his emails really change their tone, and his excuses begin to repeat and then cancel out his promises he made in earlier emails. Then you are said to be "unreasonable".

    If you post on all your forums, you will not be the first one on most any forum. Post go back at least a year on our infamous NATE on many forums.
    Tony

    Black '01 D2 148K AMSOIL Synthetics
    HG Jul-11, ABS Opt B fix, Motorad 180 t-stat, Magnecor 8mm wires, NGK plugs, TW front DS, QT diff guards, TF steering damper, OME 777/781 MD springs w/rear D1 spring seats, TF+2 shocks, SS ext brake hoses, HLC Fab Sliders w/nerfs, BottorF'ed modified rear bumper, SD Roof Rack w/4 Hellas, LR fuel tank skid, Yokohama Geolander AT-S LT245/75/16E, LR stainless A-bar w/IPF lights

    GO HOKIES!!

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Seattle, WA
    Posts
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    Bottorf Ripped Me Off Too

    Been 8 months and here's what I got:

    -- 7 promises that it was shipped <never happened>
    -- 6 promises to forward tracking numbers <never happened>
    -- 5 promises to "call me in the morning" <never happened>

    Top 10 excuses:
    1) "Melanie will check"
    2) "Haven't had a chance to talk with the shipping department" <just found out, there isn't one>
    3) "PayPal screwed up... I hate these guys for being so messed up"
    4) "UPS screwed up, and and I hate these guys for being so messed up"
    <got 11 responses like this on file>
    5) "We Lost your address, can you give it to me" <3 times, amazing when you think about the last time he told me this was 3 days after he promised is was already shipped>
    6) "Can you give me your number, I'll call first thing tomorrow" < 4 times, oh, and no call of course... suppose you guessed that already>
    7) My personal favorite that should be presented in every small business class, and has been told to me twice: "Oh, I forget, what did you order?
    8) "It's being shipped, but UPS doesn't issue tracking numbers for freight" <If you don't already know this, then you can talk to UPS and ask them is they do... do. Every damn shipment gets a tracking number, they pride themselves on it>
    9) "We do good work and we're busy, we can't be on-time all the time" <Actually, I wonder if they're ever on-time. In fact, I wonder if they actually ship anything>
    10) The all-time felony of lies "I've issued you a refund.

    So, does anyone else want to join me in a lawsuit. At this point, I'm very keen on getting this thief out of business. Otherwise, I'm moving ahead... don't really care what it costs, I don't think this is right and something has to be done.

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